Frank Cooke and Tom Sachs Return to Nike
Nike is making significant changes in leadership and strategy, aiming to reshape its image and reconnect with sneaker culture. Host Matt Frates discusses the recent appointment of new CEO Elliot Hill and the return of influential figures like Frank Cook and Tom Sachs, highlighting their potential impact on the brand's creative direction.
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Transcript
Some familiar faces are returning to Nike.
Matt Frates:What does it mean?
Matt Frates:We're going to dive into that.
Matt Frates:This time on fire footwear.
Matt Frates:Welcome back to fire footwear, everybody.
Matt Frates:As always, this is your host, Matt frates.
Matt Frates:I hope that this finds you well.
Matt Frates:I want to thank you again for coming back to this podcast.
Matt Frates:It means a lot to me.
Matt Frates:I want to remind everybody that I was on the in kicks.
Matt Frates:We trust podcast.
Matt Frates:K I X.
Matt Frates:We trust podcast.
Matt Frates:They were great guys.
Matt Frates:Trevor and Kevin were amazing.
Matt Frates:We had a great nearly two hour conversation.
Matt Frates:You can find that wherever it is that you find your podcast.
Matt Frates:But as always, I want to make sure that you support the people who support me.
Matt Frates:So go and hit follow on them.
Matt Frates:Go and find them on Instagram.
Matt Frates:Follow their account.
Matt Frates:Because I think it's very important within the sneaker community that we hold ourselves up, that we support each other, because I think that's how the culture continues to grow.
Matt Frates:So last week, I did an episode about Nike CEO change, and I tried to focus on the positives and negatives or the highs and lows that John Donahoe's tenure at Nike saw.
Matt Frates:And I think that I missed the boat a little bit on thinking about this in the proper context.
Matt Frates:I mean, at the time, we knew that the CEO change was happening, but we really hadn't seen any signs of life out of what the new direction was going to be.
Matt Frates:The thing I think I was right about, though, is that I think most people out there don't really care who the CEO of a company is.
Matt Frates:I think that sneaker culture might be a little bit different because, and I think also social media helps change that a little bit.
Matt Frates:We know more than we ever did.
Matt Frates:There's so much more information that's out there that we know who the CEO is.
Matt Frates:We know when they've changed things over.
Matt Frates:But the thing is, is since I've been in sneaker culture, I think this is the second or third CEO that Nike has had.
Matt Frates:The last episode, I tried to talk about a lot of the positive things that took place for Nike in the time that John Donahoe was at the helm.
Matt Frates:I think it was a lot of positive.
Matt Frates:I mean, you could argue that Nike was at the highest of highs during that time period.
Matt Frates:Certainly resale prices would have you thinking that.
Matt Frates:But I ask you now, is what is Nike hoping to accomplish now that they're moving on to their CEO?
Matt Frates:Well, the first thing I think you've noticed is that they're looking to change the perception that they are an uncool brand.
Matt Frates:John Donahoe, for everything that he brought to the table was a CEO.
Matt Frates:And I mean that in, he wore suits, he looked professional.
Matt Frates:He didn't seem like he fit into the culture.
Matt Frates:Now, I also said that Nike is not just about sneaker culture, but you get the idea.
Matt Frates:He didn't seem like one of us, if that makes sense.
Matt Frates:And so they switch over to a guy in Elliot Hill who has a ton of pedigree with the company.
Matt Frates:30 plus years with Nike, starting out as an intern, holding some major positions.
Matt Frates:And I think the perception that they're trying to give us, the consumer, is that this guy eats, sleeps and breathes Nike.
Matt Frates:This guy is one of us.
Matt Frates:He thinks about the brand.
Matt Frates:He thinks about how the brand can be better for its consumer.
Matt Frates:And I think that's a really important distinction to make because I believe that it's the, the future of what Nike is trying to do.
Matt Frates:Fast forward to this week.
Matt Frates:I think you're seeing some growing signs that Nike is on the path to treading a new path for themselves.
Matt Frates:First thing, the return of Frank Cook to the design world with Nike.
Matt Frates:If you don't know anything about Frank Cook, I think you need to look him up.
Matt Frates:Frank Cook is helpful or responsible in so many of some of the greatest colorways and greatest releases that we've seen over the last decade or so.
Matt Frates:The shattered backboards.
Matt Frates:While he maybe didn't have a direct impact on that, he was a part of that.
Matt Frates:The Air Jordan four.
Matt Frates: Raptors in: Matt Frates:The Justin Timberlake man of the Woods Jordan three.
Matt Frates: The soulfly Jordan one in: Matt Frates:The Air Jordan four.
Matt Frates: Cactus Jack in: Matt Frates:That's a now iconic shoe.
Matt Frates:The list goes on and on.
Matt Frates:And I think what Nike is trying to accomplish by doing this is trying to add some familiarity to the brand and familiarity not just for their athletic apparel seekers.
Matt Frates:I'm talking about familiarity for people who are really embedded and deep into the culture.
Matt Frates:One of the things that today's world provides us that I think wouldn't have existed 20 years ago is now.
Matt Frates:A lot of people may be learning who Frank Cook is for the very first time.
Matt Frates:There's nothing wrong with that, by the way.
Matt Frates:You know that one of the reasons that I started this podcast, and one of the things that I try to accomplish on this pod is that I give you a different perspective or I cause you to learn something or remember something that maybe you hadn't remembered or maybe never knew.
Matt Frates:And for many, many people, I think Frank Cook's impact is not something they're deeply familiar with.
Matt Frates:It's something that you should be deeply familiar with because I think Nike is telling us specifically sneaker culture with this move.
Matt Frates:We hear you.
Matt Frates:We want to do something different for you.
Matt Frates:We want to give you what you have been used to up until this point.
Matt Frates:That's an important distinction to make because I believe that Nike is doing the right thing by trying to give us something that feels familiar.
Matt Frates:Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that the execution of that is going to work out, but I think this, coupled with the new CEO and the look and the feel that Nike wants the new CEO to give us, this is an important step forward.
Matt Frates:The other thing that the new CEO has already done is announce that they're going to be pulling back production on general releases.
Matt Frates:You'd think to yourself, who cares?
Matt Frates:Why do I care if general releases aren't as available?
Matt Frates:But the entire point of this is to drive up the idea of scarcity.
Matt Frates:And what does that do?
Matt Frates:It drives up the idea of hype.
Matt Frates:And what does that do?
Matt Frates:It drives up resale prices.
Matt Frates: iggering moments right now to: Matt Frates:This is what happened.
Matt Frates:One thing that Nike did is made things available and that availability caused hype to come down.
Matt Frates:And they're looking at a lot of product that is sitting on shelves, maybe virtual shelves, but a lot of product that is sitting somewhere that they're having to send to the Nike outlet.
Matt Frates:That's not what Nike wants.
Matt Frates:That doesn't give off the idea of cool.
Matt Frates:So now you've got Frank Cook back in the mix, who could very possibly give us some of those iconic colorways and iconic designs that we're used to seeing.
Matt Frates:And now they're going to produce less of them and they're going to produce less of the regular general releases.
Matt Frates:And that means people are going to get more hyped, people are going to want more.
Matt Frates:The only thing that I'm not sure about is whether the prices are going to come down.
Matt Frates:I don't think that they are.
Matt Frates:But the prices could be the only thing that holds this combination back from Nike really making an impact.
Matt Frates:Now move to another piece of news that has been confirmed.
Matt Frates:And this was confirmed only like a day or two before I recorded this episode, the return of Tom Sachs.
Matt Frates:If you recall, I think it was in April of 23.
Matt Frates:Somewhere in that time period, the news came out that Tom Sachs was, I guess you could use the word, problematic within his artwork space.
Matt Frates:A lot of accusations came out about certain things.
Matt Frates:One of the most damning ones I believe was being naked on Zoom calls not really the greatest protocol from a professional standpoint, but I think people have understood that Tom Sachs is what I would consider a delicate genius.
Matt Frates:He's an artist.
Matt Frates:He's not somebody, in my opinion.
Matt Frates:If you think about high minded creatives, do they really lack the social interaction, the social skills that a lot of the regular people like us might have?
Matt Frates:I would venture a guess that nobody listening to this podcast would ever get on a YouTube channel or a Zoom call or anything naked.
Matt Frates:We just wouldn't.
Matt Frates:There's also a ton of other stuff that came out.
Matt Frates:The bottom line with Tom Sachs comes down to Nike is making this move to make money.
Matt Frates:Many people, rightfully so, are going into the morality of the situation.
Matt Frates:Should they bring Tom Sachs back?
Matt Frates:Is he too problematic?
Matt Frates:The thing is, is I am not here to help you make that moral dilemma any easier.
Matt Frates:What it comes down to for many people is, can you separate the art from the artist?
Matt Frates:Full transparency.
Matt Frates:I don't really know a whole lot about Tom Sachs.
Matt Frates:When I hear about what it was alleged that he did, I thought, that's just not a boss that I want to work for.
Matt Frates:Is that somebody who can design sneakers and sell sneakers?
Matt Frates:You're damn right he can.
Matt Frates:And he's already proven that.
Matt Frates:The Mars yard, the Mars yard 2.0, probably two of the most iconic sneaker releases almost of all time.
Matt Frates:Some people would say that they haven't really aged well, but you want to talk about something that tells a story.
Matt Frates:You want to talk about something that has intention behind it?
Matt Frates:That certainly does.
Matt Frates:The last time that we saw Tom Sachs was the general purpose shoe.
Matt Frates:And that shoe looked completely plain, but it was something so new, because the idea, the story was that it was anti hype, that you would wear it, you would crease it, you'd take it out.
Matt Frates:It was something meant to be worn, which, as we all know, in sneaker culture, isn't exactly a mainstay within the culture.
Matt Frates:I'm learning now that more and more people wear their shoes.
Matt Frates:More and more people don't care about the creasing and all that stuff.
Matt Frates:But the whole point of that release was to be anti hype beast.
Matt Frates:And so now you bring back Tom Sachs, but that's not enough.
Matt Frates:Now you announce it's going to be a Mard 3.0.
Matt Frates:And that has had a lot of hype percolating out on social media, and rightfully so.
Matt Frates:A lot of people are asking the question as to whether this is something that they've had in the works.
Matt Frates:And I would venture a guess, I'm sure somebody like sock Jake probably knows more, but I would say that most likely the Marsyard 3.0 was something that had been in the works prior to all of the extracurriculars that Tom Sachs had on his plate.
Matt Frates:Because obviously these things take time to manufacture, they take time to design.
Matt Frates:Somebody like him, I would assume, doesn't just spit out a sneaker design and call it a day.
Matt Frates:I would assume that he has a process.
Matt Frates:I would assume that it's a very specific process and that he's very particular about how he goes about his work.
Matt Frates:But when all that happened, Nike had to pull back.
Matt Frates:Because in today's society, when something problematic like that happens, you do need to pull back.
Matt Frates:I wouldn't say he was canceled per se because I'm not sure that he's somebody outside of that very exclusive art community that anybody really cares about, that anybody really has on their radar.
Matt Frates:Sneakerheads have him on their radar and now he's back on their radar.
Matt Frates:So the Marsyard 3.0 will release.
Matt Frates:I think it will be hot.
Matt Frates:I think it will be hit.
Matt Frates:And based off of some things we've already talked about, my guess is that it's going to be limited.
Matt Frates:Nike again, trying to drive up hype, trying to drive the perception that they are cool.
Matt Frates:Now there's another thing I want to talk about.
Matt Frates:The last thing I want to talk about that is purely speculative at this point.
Matt Frates:However, there are things that are not speculative about the entirety of the situation.
Matt Frates:And I'm talking about James Whitner and the Whitner group.
Matt Frates:James Whitner and the Whitner group are obviously over a lot of some of the most famous boutiques in sneaker and street wear.
Matt Frates:And obviously the AMA manyer collaboration with Jordan Brand has been nothing short of a major success.
Matt Frates:The while you were sleeping campaign that just happened recently, they're starting to release those.
Matt Frates:I just copped the Jordan four.
Matt Frates:I was very excited about that.
Matt Frates:Ama Manir really is in a place where I feel like they can do no wrong.
Matt Frates:And I did an episode and a video on the fact that maybe they're Nike's new flagship collaborator.
Matt Frates:All this stuff that's happening with James Whitner, what we do know is that I think it was like $1.2 billion that he had to give back.
Matt Frates:There was a federal investigation and a lot of it was around the idea of backdooring.
Matt Frates:I would venture a guess that most people when they heard about this, didn't understand the nuances of it, didn't understand the money laundering part of it.
Matt Frates:I think what many people in the culture heard was the b word.
Matt Frates:The term backdooring.
Matt Frates:Backdooring has a negative connotation within the culture.
Matt Frates:And what is backdooring for those who don't know, it's, I have a shoe, I have a ton of them, and I'm going to give them to people I have a relationship with through the back door, essentially.
Matt Frates:And before all of these shoes actually release, it's something that I have to imagine has been happening within the culture forever.
Matt Frates:It's just something that happens.
Matt Frates:It's like somebody cutting in line.
Matt Frates:How are you going to stop them at a release if they cut in line?
Matt Frates:Who's going to tell them?
Matt Frates:A lot of times that could cause a fight.
Matt Frates:Backdooring has happened.
Matt Frates:It will continue to happen as long as sneakers are a hot commodity.
Matt Frates:And James Whitner now, in my opinion, is almost like the poster child for backdooring.
Matt Frates:And the speculation now is that Adidas and James Whitner and the Whitner group are going to be collaborating on what seems like not a one off collection, but a very large collection of Adidas now in full transparency.
Matt Frates:This has happened before, and the Whitner group has done a new balance collaboration, actually fairly recently.
Matt Frates:So this is not something that's like way out of left field.
Matt Frates:But it does venture a question of what does it mean for the partnership between Ama manir and Jordan brand.
Matt Frates:I would like to think that it's pretty solid because they just came out with this massive collection.
Matt Frates:But that collection was before the fallout.
Matt Frates:And now that we see the fallout, maybe Nike is thinking we need to distance ourselves from anything that gives us a negative connotation.
Matt Frates:Because remember, at the beginning of this episode, I talked about the fact that Nike, with that CEO change, is looking to make it seem as if they are hearing us, the consumer.
Matt Frates:And backdooring is not something that we in the sneaker community like to hear at all.
Matt Frates:No matter whether it's real, no matter whether it's something we have no control over.
Matt Frates:If there's a shoe that you want and you find out that these companies, you find out that these stores are giving them away before you've even had the chance to get them, that's going to leave a bad taste in sneakerheads mouths.
Matt Frates:It just is.
Matt Frates:And so I don't know if this is true or not.
Matt Frates:I don't know what this means for the overall partnership, but perhaps per, just perhaps, Nike is trying to say we want something different for us.
Matt Frates:And we need to get away from people like James Whitner for a while.
Matt Frates:And maybe that's what this entails.
Matt Frates:But I think that overall, when you look at these moves, Nike is trying to change their perception.
Matt Frates:They are trying to change their outward image.
Matt Frates:They want to seem cool again.
Matt Frates:They want to seem hype again.
Matt Frates:And they're doing everything that they can so far, two weeks into this new regime to make us, the sneaker community, feel like they are going to do something for us that they haven't done in a while.
Matt Frates:And before we get to the end, let's get to our release of the week.
Matt Frates:Release of the week, where I like to highlight a shoe that catches my eye.
Matt Frates:It's not always hype.
Matt Frates:It's just something that I want you to know about.
Matt Frates:And this week, this shoe is a basketball shoe.
Matt Frates:It is the third iteration of the Jason Tatum Jordan brand shoe.
Matt Frates:It is the welcome to the garden colorway.
Matt Frates:I believe they're going to be doing a pack.
Matt Frates:There's going to be a Jordan one low and the Jordan Tatum three.
Matt Frates:The silhouette overall, the way that it looks, straight flames, in my opinion, it gives me nineties vibes.
Matt Frates:I do really like it.
Matt Frates:And to me, it kind of looks like something that you might actually be able to pull off casually, not just on the basketball court.
Matt Frates:It's going to run you $125.
Matt Frates:This particular colorway releases on October 10, and I think it's fire something to look into if you don't have a tatum or if you're somebody who's not sure about tatums.
Matt Frates:I think this could be it.
Matt Frates:The first iteration of the Jason Tatum shoe I thought was great.
Matt Frates:The second was okay.
Matt Frates:The third one I really, really like.
Matt Frates:So if you want to tatum, you like this colorway or you're just interested in the Jordan one and this is your way to get it.
Matt Frates:October 10, $125.
Matt Frates:That is your way to go.
Matt Frates:What do you think about all this news that Nike is making, and what do you think it means for the direction of the future for this company, at least in the short term?
Matt Frates:Let me know.
Matt Frates:Get in touch with me on Instagram at Firefootwearpod is the handle to do that, I'd love to add new people to the group chat.
Matt Frates:I've been meeting new people every day and it's been so much fun.
Matt Frates:I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on this, but I'd also like to share sneaker stories.
Matt Frates: -: Matt Frates:I'd love again to hear your stories, play them, react to them on the show.
Matt Frates:It means a lot to get that connection and that's one really, really good way to do that.
Matt Frates:You can, of course, find me on TikTok if you want to watch videos.
Matt Frates:Fire footwear sneakers talk on YouTube.
Matt Frates:It's not a regurgitation of what happens here.
Matt Frates:I'm trying to do some new and different things on there.
Matt Frates:So if you go find me on YouTube, please make sure to hit follow.
Matt Frates:Please make sure to hit like and all that good stuff.
Matt Frates: We just passed: Matt Frates:This has been such a fun journey and I can't wait to do more for you.
Matt Frates:I hope this finds everybody well, fam, I hope this finds everybody safe and I will talk to you next time.
Matt Frates:This is fire footwear.
Matt Frates:The opinions and viewpoints expressed on fire footwear are those of Matt fraits and his guest, and not necessarily those of the Matti Ice Media network.
Matt Frates:Fire footwear is exclusively owned by Matt Fraitzen and is brought to you by the Matti Ice Media network.
